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Does the tribe own Red Lake?
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MALLARDMAN
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:37 am    Post subject: Does the tribe own Red Lake? Reply with quote

An interesting read from the outdoor news...

Maybe we will be able to fish the entire lake soon.

Is Minnesota the rightful owner of all of Red Lake?

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 12:04 PM EDT

By Joe Albert Staff Writer

St. Paul - Red Lake has been garnering headlines ever since the announcement that it would be re-opened to walleye fishing this spring.

When the fishing begins Saturday, state anglers as they have in the past will be about to ply just a portion of the lake's total acreage. The remainder is under the control of the Red Lake Band of Chippewa.

But a letter that originally appeared in The Native American Press/Ojibwe News, and that's been making the rounds on the Internet, asks whether the Band is the rightful owner of the 236,000 acres it controls. Greg Spaulding, a Bagley resident, began looking into the matter in 2002, after Red Lake law enforcement seized a plane belonging to an ice angler who said he inadvertently landed on the band's part of Red Lake.




Spaulding - who makes clear that all of his research into the matter has been done on his own time and has nothing to do with his state job as a conservation officer - cites several court cases, and asks for a response from Floyd Jourdain, Red Lake Tribal chairman.

'If my research is correct, Red Lake Reservation and/or the federal government do not own any of Red Lake or any of the navigable rivers and streams that flow into or out of the lake,' Spaulding writes. 'The State of Minnesota owns the water, bed and shores of Red Lake. The fishing and fish should be managed by the State of Minnesota.'

Spaulding cites court cases from 1926 and '81, and discusses a variety of historical topics in making his case. Spaulding also asks Jourdain whether there are any 'laws, rules or treaties that I have overlooked.'

Spaulding writes that it's his understanding that the Supreme Court found in favor of the state in the cases he cites, but also writes, 'but I welcome any contradictory facts or laws you believe relevant in this matter.'

The letter was intended only for Jourdain. Spaulding said he was 'disappointed' it had been made public.

'I wrote a personal letter to the tribal chairman and I am still waiting for a professional and private response,' Spaulding said earlier this week.

Spaulding asked for a response by Saturday, May 13. He hadn't heard anything as of Monday.

Attorney General Mike Hatch's office said Red Lake is under federal jurisdiction, and directed questions to the U.S. Department of the Interior's Office of the Field Solicitor at the Twin Cities Field Office in St. Paul. A spokesman at that office referred questions to the Red Lake Band.

A call to Jourdain was not returned as of Outdoor News press time.

Mark Holsten, DNR deputy commissioner, said he was aware of the letter. He said it takes certain components of the cases and puts them together.

'Are there things in there that are factual? Yes,' Holsten said. 'But there are other components within those cases.'

Holsten said the DNR hadn't seen any evidence that the state might own the entire lake.

'Right now, our job is to manage the resource based upon the information we have,' Holsten said. 'Federal law is very clear in that if there is an issue here, it needs to be resolved at the federal level, not by the state DNR.

'We manage based upon the law as we know it,' he added. 'If there are questions, those questions need to be resolved at the federal level.'
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MALLARDMAN
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Links to letters from both Parties.

The tribe responded only to the DNR and asked for the Bagely CO to be fired. I hate when the race card is pulled out all the time..

http://www.rlnn.com/ArtMay06/NonMemberThreatensFishOnRedLake.html

http://www.rlnn.com/ArtMay06/ChairmanJourdainRespondsNonMemberThreats.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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shaky legs 2
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Chairman Jourdain responds to Spaulding Letter Reply with quote

You can read Spaulding's letter and Chairman Jourdain's response in it's entirety (addressed to Gene Merriman, DNR Commissioner) at Red Lake Net News.
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wierschke
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:43 am    Post subject: Respect Reply with quote

Please, before anyone responds, take time and think about this issue. The Red Lake Nation, and the State of Minnesota have worked very closely to bring the Red Lake Walleye back. Ax grinding here, or any other web site will only cause problems. I'm Not saying don't express your opions. Just do it somwhere eles.
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Leebo
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here, Here!! This is an awsome success story. The Tribe and the DNR actually put aside their private agendas and worked together to bring the Walleye population back. And they brought it back better than anyone could have hoped. We are all quick to jump on organizations when they screw up, how about a little applause when they do something well.
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whiteagle
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: unfair Reply with quote

Yes its nice to see walleyes back in abundance but I still disagree with one group of people being able to take so many more then the next group. How is it fair they can take 10 a pc with no size limit and I can only take 2 in a small slot. Last winter we caught 63 walleyes and only 4 were in the slot between 7 guys. again they control more water then leech lake and milacs combined. Why should my tax money go to filling there freezers?????
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Buck
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: unfair Reply with quote

whiteagle wrote:
Yes its nice to see walleyes back in abundance but I still disagree with one group of people being able to take so many more then the next group. How is it fair they can take 10 a pc with no size limit and I can only take 2 in a small slot. Last winter we caught 63 walleyes and only 4 were in the slot between 7 guys. again they control more water then leech lake and milacs combined. Why should my tax money go to filling there freezers?????


First of all people need to get the facts straight on limits & the overall recovery effort.

The Band members do have a size limit (slot), and nets are not allowed. Also the Tribal Council has put additional $$ into hiring more CSO's for enforcement. And as far as OUR tax money going into their freezers...nope. The Red Lake Tribe paid for the restocking of the lake, the State of Minnesota put very little $$ towards this effort. There have been a number of seminars conducted by the folks that were directly involved with the recovery effort both from the Red Lake Band & MN DNR. This seminar outlines the history of the lake & the commercial fishery, the moratorium to stop fishing, and the entire recovery effort. Much of this information has been printed in various papers & magazines...but for whatever reason I have noticed some differences in these articles. So in no way am I pointed fingers here at any one person, I can understand how things can get twisted around.

I'd recommend contacting the DNR to see when & where the "One Lake, Two Traditions" seminars may be presented again. They are very informative and allow for a question & answer period at the end. I know they've held the seminars here in Bemidji, Minneapolis, Duluth, and I think some may have been held out of state as well.

One thing I want to add simply as my opinion. There is a real negative sense out there about the Band members being able to take home 10 fish vs. us non-band members at 2 fish. Please keep in mind most Tribal members are not big on sportfishing, very few have boats & motors. A small number of members will fish, and they will likely fish every day and take their 10 fish every day, and IMO that's just fine. I have a feeling the non-band members will either take more fish from the lake due to much higher numbers of people fishing, or we'll get to our season quota quicker then the band members. Keep in mind, this awesome lake was a way of life for most of the Tribe back before the moratorium. It was their source of income, the way they fed their families. Then one day it was all gone. Yes, the lake was overfished, both by them & us. That's all in the past, the lake is a booming walleye mecca once again, let's look to the future and thank the folks on both sides for putting together this effort of recovery.

Buck
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ozzie
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buck is correct in that the Tribe contributed more $ than we did but the percentage of the lake they controll and the amount of money they put foward were not equal. We contributed quite a bit of the over all cost.....like a 55% to 45% ratio on the funding...not exact but the numbers didn't tip drastically to the tribe like many state. And go figure that with a 108000 lb quota to their 650000lb quota with our thousands of anglers that will fish Red compared to 100s (maybe) of Red Lake anglers that we will hit our quota quicker...That doesn't take a genius to figure out.................The whole lake should be accessible to all anglers via water since the law is that all water is state owned and if it is surrounded by private land and you can access it via a waterway (stream, river, or other conected lake) than it is legal to fish by anyone with a valid minnesota fishing license....Why is Red different than Leech or Winnie like the guy stated in his letter to the Tribe.............. Good Luck......OZ
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Leebo
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well stated Buck. I never understand the vitrol that these treatise conversations arouse. To me, it's just greed and ignorance, a dangerous combination. If you look at our relationship with the tribes in the context of the last few generations, it's a no-brainer as to who got the short end of the stick. I'm not exactly a flaming liberal but it seems like people who complain about not being able to harvest as much as a given group of indians are hypocritical at best, and downright morons at worst. Who overharvested the forests? Who has caused the pollution that has our fish chock full of mercury? Who is destroying all our waterfowl habitat building condominiums and running ATVs? And while you are at it, Who murdered hundreds of thousands of native people and set up shop on their land? But the myopic idiots can only whine, "I want more fish". Those folks give fishermen a bad name.
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cat eyes
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you have some good points leebo but you do sound like a flaming liberal.As a smart black man once said " can't we all just get along".why does one group of people need different rights over another?Are we not all created equal?are we not one nation under God?what is happening to this country?lets all just be happy and quit with all the stupids laws.That is it I think lawyers and politicians are slowly ruining the world .when it comes to fishing there should be no controversy about it just get out there and have FUN. Very Happy FISH ON CAT EYES
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whiteagle
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:47 pm    Post subject: equal rights Reply with quote

Quote:
a flaming liberal but it seems like people who complain about not being able to harvest as much as a given group of indians are hypocritical at best, and downright morons at worst. Who overharvested the forests? Who has caused the pollution that has our fish chock full of mercury? Who is destroying all our waterfowl habitat building condominiums and running ATVs? And while you are at it, Who murdered hundreds of thousands of native people and set up shop on their land? But the myopic idiots can only whine, "I want more fish". Those folks give fishermen a bad name.


You tell me who murdered native people, It was not me by that thinking I should get special priviladges because hudreds of thousands of my nationality were killed by the germans in WW2.
I have not built any condos or driven my ATV over any duck habitat. IN fact when I hunt or fish I have let way more go then I have kept and passed that attitude on to yonger hunters and fisherman. I have given more back to nature then I have taken. so think before you call people names but then I suppose thats all you know how to do. Im sorry there ancesters went thru what they did but that is in the past and Still think we should all have the same rights to the natural resources of this great land. Rolling Eyes
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MALLARDMAN
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't discuss this issue here...

What kind of communist comment was that?

This is a real issue.
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Leebo
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whiteagle you make my point for me. The privilages OUR people got is called Israel. You speak from an individual's perspective. You (and I) above all others should be the ones willing to speak as a union of people. Or is the slaughter of our ancestors more significant than that of the native Americans. Wake up. And I agree that to suggest that this thread be shut down is a chicken s*** proposal.
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whiteagle
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 9:21 pm    Post subject: fairness Reply with quote

I dont expect any special privlidges, I just want things to be equal for all.
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slabby
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is the feds that have jurisdiction, why don' they respond to the arguments that Mr. Spaulding presents??
It seems a clear response should have been given by them by now to clear this up--- that is of course, unless, Spauldings points ARE valid and can not be refuted!
It seems Mr. Jourdain was blowing a smoke screen to cloud the real issues in hopes of making them go away. Didn't work--
but did succeed in getting both sides p***** off.
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